I saw the following question on Formspring the other day, asked by Harper Eliot, the former Lady Grinning Soul, and author of the terrific, newly relocated blog “It Girl. Rag Doll”:
If you’re sleeping with someone whose partner doesn’t know, are YOU also cheating, or is the cheating only on your lover’s part? Also… can you be ethically non-monogamous if you’re fucking someone who is “unethically” non-monogamous”?
First, a tiny tirade against the tyranny of The Ethical Slut. I read The Ethical Slut. I enjoyed The Ethical Slut. I recommend it to anyone thinking about opening up a relationship or just having a lot of sex. But there is a segment of the population that seems to treat the book as if it were “received wisdom,” or more: commandments from on high. They consult the book and issue opinions and judgments – of themselves and, more often, of others.
There was a brief period in my marriage when our arrangement was “don’t ask/don’t tell” – explicitly. We acknowledged that I (at that point, T wasn’t interested) might have sex with others, and agreed not to discuss the specifics of any such encounters or relationships. During that time, I went on a date with a woman I met through OKCupid, a married woman in her own open relationship. As we talked, she lamented that – much as she wanted to – she couldn’t fuck me, because she and her husband “feel strongly that they want no part of dishonesty.” I explained that non-disclosure isn’t dishonesty. But to her, the contours of my relationship failed to pass the muster of hers.
The truth is, I didn’t really want a relationship of any sort with this woman – I wasn’t that attracted to her, and neither did I like her very much. (The two were closely intertwined.) As we said goodbye, she went to kiss me, to shove her tongue in my mouth. “Wait a second,” I said. “Is this consistent with your deal with your husband?” She confessed it probably wasn’t.
So here I was with a woman who told me she couldn’t fuck me because I wasn’t living up to her ethical standards – arbitrary standards that she and her husband had set for me, without consulting me, standards I had no interest in – but standards she was perfectly comfortable violating herself.
Now, she is a hypocrite. Not all partisans of The Ethical Slut are hypocrites. But there is this tendency – reflected both in my date’s behavior and in the question above – to imagine that there’s some objective standard of ethical behavior against which we should be measured. Against which we should measure others.
Sorry, but I’m not buying it. I try really damned hard to be “ethical.” To me, that means not doing harm. Anyone who loves someone knows that complete and total honesty isn’t a gift, it’s a selfish cruelty. That’s not to say that deception is good; it’s to say that sometimes the most loving thing to do for a partner is to say something other than the truth, or not to speak the truth. Obviously – there’s a lot of room for abuse and deception here. For years, I operated in what I thought was the protection of this safe harbor for ethical behavior and, in fact, I was a self-deceived, deluded, duplicitous liar. But… when a good friend told his wife, as they were leaving for a wedding, that her hair looked awful? I mean, she had asked. But it was too late for her to do anything other than wear it as it was. What’s the ethical thing to do in that situation? I’m not sure. But I’m pretty sure it’s not to say, “Oh, it looks like all it needs is a piece of fruit in it and it’ll be complete.” (I was at the wedding. This was, in fact, a totally accurate assessment of her hair.)
So for me, what it means to be ethical is not to harm someone. I’m a bit of a stickler on this point. I (mostly) try hard not to kill moths, or ants, or roaches (though I do, from time to time, lay out traps or poison if we’re infested). And I try hard not to harm friends or lovers or strangers (or people who have harmed me). And, perhaps most important (for me), I try hard not to judge others – their behavior, their standards, what have you.
Now – to the question at the top of this entry: as I’ve written before, “cheating,” to me, is doing anything your partner believes you’re not doing with someone else. My definition of cheating has nothing to do with the partners of my sex partners. And with regard to my ability to remain ethical in the face of your lack of ethics? I don’t see people as chattel. If you have decided – for whatever reason – that you are prepared to deceive your husband, then I don’t feel particularly well equipped to render judgment on your decision. I certainly don’t know enough to conclude that, by fucking you, I would be wronging your partner.
When someone bumps into me on the subway, or cuts me off when I’m driving, because he’s in a hurry, how I react is the best barometer of my mood I know: I’m capable of snarling fury – “That miserable fucker – how selfish and insensitive and obnoxious!” And I’m capable of gentle generosity – “Wow, he’s really in a rush and oblivious to his surroundings. I hope he’s o.k., that nothing terrible is happening in his life.” And, by being capable of both, I’m capable of seeing how projective my judgment generally is. How can I possibly render a decision about your ethics without truly walking in your shoes?
So: Yes. Yes, I can be ethically monogamous if I’m fucking someone who’s “unethically” non-monogamous. But can you?
When my husband and I first opened up our relationship, we did have a rule, we would not get involved with unethical non monogamist people. It wasn’t because we judged them. It was simply because we didn’t want the drama that could potentially come with getting involved with someone who wasn’t themselves open. And we noticed, that those who had to hide their involvements with us, couldn’t really “be” with us.
We’ve since changed our minds about this, for very much the same reasons that you have outlined. Like I said, we do not hold judgment about those who wish to look outside of their relationships without telling their partner. So, it is not my nor my husband’s responsibility to tell a person how to conduct their relationships. If they want to see us on the side, so be it. We are not responsible for their choices. If it’s not us, it will be someone else. It is not OUR fault if someone chooses to step out of their relationship, they have the power to say it is not right if they feel that way.
That being said, I am yet to get involved with someone who is stepping outside of their relationship. Mostly because, someone who has to hide their involvement with me, does not have a lot of time available for me and I generally lose interest due to lack of interaction.
Agree totally. In general, the people I fuck, or date, have a pretty compatible set of ethics. So while I have no rule, it’s unlikely I’d be drawn to fuck someone operating on the DL. Not impossible – it has happened. But unlikely.
Just a month or so ago, I went on a date with a smart, charming, hot, sexy, woman. Unhappily married, crystal clear that a) she wanted to find a guy to leave her husband for, and b) she wanted to suck my cock. Though I kissed her goodbye expecting, and promising, more, after I slept on it, I just lost my interest. No judgment, no hard feelings. It just wasn’t as appealing to imagine my cock in her mouth, knowing we were ultimately seeking such different things.
I hate nothing more than being lied to by someone who doesn’t want to harm me by potentially hurting my feelings. I’m feel harmed more by being lied to than by hearing the truth. It is unethical for you to decide what might or might not harm others.
Also, all your OKCupid images violate their terms, have been reported and removed by their staff.
If I did something that upset you, personally, I’m sorry. I’m afraid I have no idea who you are. And if this is a more general point then, ok – I don’t think this is something I do/have done. And I’m sorry that whatever feelings you have toward me have led you to try to make my life more difficult by reporting my OKC images.
In any event, I’m sorry: you sound aggrieved, whether by me or by another, and I feel for you.
Good luck.
My reporting the pictures is nothing personal and has nothing to do with my feelings toward you. I do it all the time when I come across images that violate their terms. You made your own life more difficult by uploading pics that violate their terms. I did not make your life harder by reporting the abuse. Clearly OKCupid staff agreed and took your pictures down. I’m sorry you are upset about this.
Hmm. I have no idea what you’re talking about.
What part of “It is unethical for you to decide what might or might not harm others” is unclear to you?
I don’t know what we’re discussing. In what moment, in what words, did I write that I thought I could or should decide what might or might not harm others? I think – I think – that this is precisely the point I was making in this post. I think I agree with you. I wouldn’t presume to decide what might or might not harm others; all I can do is endeavor not to harm others myself.
I guess the question begged is whether, if I have a relationship with a married woman who’s on the sly, I’m harming her husband. I think that the answer is categorically no. The woman? Maybe, maybe not, I don’t know. But it’s her issue. That’s my point.
“Anyone who loves someone knows that complete and total honesty isn’t a gift, it’s a selfish cruelty.”
It is presumptuous of you to claim to know what anyone who loves someone knows. I want my partners to give complete and total honesty. I don’t find it selfish on their part when they are completely and totally honest with me. I expect it.
“it’s to say that sometimes the most loving thing to do for a partner is to say something other than the truth, or not to speak the truth.”
Right there. Who decides when it’s OK to withhold the truth, or to say something other than the truth (i.e. lie)? It sounds like you would make that decision based on whether or not you think the complete truth might harm your partner.
“I wouldn’t presume to decide what might or might not harm others”
Without doing that, how then do you decide when it’s OK for you to withhold the truth or lie to your partner?
“all I can do is endeavor not to harm others myself”
But you ARE harming someone by your action (fucking someone who’s cheating on their SO with you). Just because it’s indirectly and not directly doesn’t magically absolve you from responsibility.
Your argument is akin to saying: Hey, I only helped Hitler build the concentration camps where I knew Jews would be killed. But because I didn’t actually kill any Jews I acted ethically because all I can do is endeavor not to harm others myself.
I was going to write a thoughtful reply to your previous thoughtful comment, but then you went here. Forget it. Good luck to you – I wish you well.
Of course you’re not going to respond. It’s just an extreme example of saying: Hey I only participated when someone did X to harm another person, but because I didn’t harm another person directly, my behavior, although complicit, is ethically sound.
Good luck to and best wishes to you as well.
Am I the only one who suspects that your anonymous commenter was cheated on? Anyway…
I’ve slept with a few married-but-cheating women, and I’ve slept with a few women who claimed to be single, in a marriage heading towards splitsville, or in an open relationship. Short of confirmation from her partner, how am I to really know the status of her relationship? At the end of the day (or night, whatever the case may be), she’s responsible for her primary relationship and I’m responsible for mine.
I do draw a line, vague as it may seem. If she’s married-but-cheating and heading towards divorce, I’ve got no trouble at all fucking her. She’s cheating with no intention of leaving him? No thanks, I’ll find a playmate elsewhere.
Yup – that all makes sense to me.